Deer Country Epilogue: Interest Check

[terriblepurpose]

SCROLL DOWN FOR APRIL 18TH UPDATE

Hello, everyone!

Currently, Deer Country is planned to end in 3 months, at the end of July. After the game's final event, several players (Ree, Lunare, Beth, and Rona) are discussing a limited-run epilogue game to serve as a structured alternative or addition to the planned sandbox.

The sandbox is intended as an unmodded, relatively quiet community without ongoing events. An epilogue could differ from the sandbox in that it follows an overarching metaplot, provides monthly horror events, and encourages PC impact on the world with mod-controlled consequences (similar to the current Hali vote). It could maintain a list of active characters via check-in AC, allow new players to join through a lightweight app system, and maintain fresh infopages.

Effectively, an epilogue could provide a more structured space for character arcs and setting elements that might not fit into a 3-month endgame. The epilogue could span into early-to-mid 2024, up to one year past the game's planned closure.

While any potential epilogue will be heavily shaped by DC's finale, we want to discuss the idea as a playerbase. Are you most interested in leaving after July, playing in a relaxed sandbox space, or playing in a more structured "epilogue game" with continuing horror events and society-building themes?

Most importantly, what's the ideal relationship between the unstructured sandbox and the structured epilogue? Should epilogue events take place in the same space as the sandbox, with sandbox players free to opt in or out of each event? In this option, everyone could continue to use the existing IC communities. Or should epilogue events take place somewhere separate, so that sandbox characters can carry on untouched by the epilogue? In this option, we'd likely create new IC communities for epilogue content.

Regardless, the epilogue would progress directly from DC's finale in July, and would be created with the support of DC's modteam. This post is intended as an interest check and discussion space. Please feel free to answer the bolded questions, ask your own questions, and share your thoughts in the space below!

We all love this game deeply. It will be hard to see its current chapter come to an end, but it's been a truly wonderful ride, and we look forward to continuing to play with you all. Thank you!

UPDATE - APRIL 18th

Thank you for the feedback, everyone!

To recap: once endgame was announced, a few players approached Simcha to ask about post-game content. Simcha noted that endgame is likely to change elements of the setting and result in a new status quo. Players could continue personal plots within that status quo, or for anything beyond the scope of that sandbox, players could create a spinoff game set within the same world.

After gathering ideas here and continuing to discuss with Simcha, we agree that a spinoff game isn't the best option. Instead, several players have suggested that "epilogue" event prompts take place in a location separate from Trench, but which all Trench characters could access. This means that a group of players could roll out connected horror events, affecting characters in the optional space but not affecting Trench as a whole. Simcha has approved this idea.

After the game closes in July, players who enjoy event-led external horror will have access to a series of optional monthly prompts until early 2024. This is meant to keep up the spirit and momentum of Deerington or Deer Country for those who want that kind of structure! We agree that optional content shouldn't impact the setting or tone of the post-game sandbox as a whole, so players not interested in that optional content will not be affected, except insofar as their CR may choose to engage with it.

tl;dr: We're happy to see interest in optional planned post-finale events, effectively a plottier add-on to the sandbox. Thank you very much for the comments, questions, feedback, and discussions - we're excited to continue plotting and playing with everyone!

We look forward to playing out the finale and seeing what comes next together.

Comments

[siriusly]

I am interested in the epilogue/society-building themes. 💪

My vote: Make the epilogue opt-in/out with the sandbox in the same space so that there's no splitting of the playerbase still remaining - especially since maybe people may not want to/be too busy to interact with every tier of whatever epilogue may be rolling out!

[ezra_of_lothal]

This is pretty much exactly my thoughts. So much of the game is already otp in/out, and I think splitting the playerbase into different spaces would probably both 'sides' of continuations less viable.

[bolstafir]

I'm 100% more interested in the notion of playing in a more structured "epilogue game" with check-in AC/light apps/continuing events past the planned finale!

As for location, I think my ideal preference would be that the epilogue events take place in the same setting as the sandbox and can be opted out of, the way current Deer Country events are. Maybe we could have optional blood effects too, like in the newsletters. Essentially, maintaining the rough status quo as intended by the sandbox, but with events in a structured way would be what I would most want to see as a player!

However, I think if there are a significant amount of players who would just like to play around in the sandbox without having to keep track of epilogue events, I think a good compromise would be an alternative location that's connected to the sandbox, so that if any players want to opt out of an epilogue event, the alternate location could spit them out temporarily. At the "endgame" of the epilogue, then, players who would like to keep playing after that could return to the sandbox.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for the feedback! We've added an update to the post above covering the outcome of the interest check, but in summary, we'll be going with alternate location, optional events, and a laid back approach. The 'endgame' of the epilogue won't impact the status quo of the sandbox either.

[peripheries]

I am interested in an epilogue game!

However, I do not believe it should have any connection to the sandbox. This might be unpopular but in my mind, they fulfill different purposes and I think trying to compromise between them would be a detriment to the goals and intentions of each. Not to mention how it seems as though it would be complicated to manage in terms of play and being able to separate when people are engaging in the epilogue content and when they are not since content is rarely limited to singular interactions. I think allowing anyone who makes either choice the freedom to so unburdened is the best way to go.

+1

[facultative]

considering the mods stance on handing over the game i don't see how it'd work within the current communities so new comms, no connection makes sense to me. from the perspective of running a game, i think it would be better to act as if the sandbox isn't there at all.

if necessary you could potentially leave it up to individual players if they want to take details over to the sandbox area. and they wouldn't have any control over the sandbox so players can do whatever they want there anyway.

[good_mourning]

I am interested in the epilogue option!

Personally, I would prefer to have it entirely separate from the sandbox aspect that will be taking place after the end game of deer country. Having an opt-in/opt-out system for the epilogue could result in the actual effects of the events getting confusing when a potentially significant portion of the characters playing in the game aren't affected.

I understand this might be splitting the player base but it does feel to me that a lot of characters that have been here for a long while might prefer the more comfortable relaxed approach of the sandbox. Conversely, newer characters would benefit from a more structured game to allow them time to develop and for players to complete the plots associated with them. I admit I'm biased because I've only been in the game for a few months and the idea of the game completely shutting down does bum me out.

I just feel as though a separate epilogue community would have a better chance of continuing to thrive and bring in new blood, while having to manage what would essentially be two different groups of people by introducing the opt-in/opt-out system wouldn't benefit the players or game nearly as much.

[wannasmash]

My fingers are crossed so hard that new players will have stuff to do because it's so important for the life of the game! And selfishly I intend to make new CR in events or plots going in, because it keeps the gears fresh and it's just fun.

[ex_sink985]

Hello! Thank you for the effort you guys are putting into this!

I am strongly against the idea of splitting the playerbase into two factions.

I am very sympathetic to people who have been in the game much longer and with much more involvement wanting to come up with a real resolution for the big DC plots, such as the Pthumerians and anti-Pthumerian sentiment, and the ongoing corruption.

For me personally: I haven't been in this game for a full three months yet, but I have had a great time and met a lot of great people. I had plans underway for both my characters, including character development (eg canon mental health issues), character relationship development (eg shipping, found family), and participation in Trench society (via jobs, clubs, housing, businesses etc). I would love nothing more than to have more time in the game to further develop these things. Unfortunately since the Riteor/Hali/Deerington stuff is totally new to me, and due to my characters' interests and CR circles not overlapping with those plots, I haven't had a chance to get involved with them, though I try and follow along ooc. I'm sure I'm not the only person in this game whose primary joy comes from other parts of the setting and plot.

Basically, I would be really uncomfortable with a resolution where a handful of players begin an epilogue game in other communities, and everyone else gets left behind with a "sandbox space". It feels needlessly divisive and cliquey. Regardless of my interests - I really like the four proposed mods and am sure they would do a great job with a plot I am really interested in - if this resolves in a way that seems designed to exclude certain players, I would likely just drop all together.

What I would personally like to see from any potential replacement mod team is a willingness to keep structures outside the big epilogue plot, such as a calendar of monthly events (reusing old events is fine) and plot hooks designed to encourage characters to get involved (the Hali vote was great, since it gives characters a reason to do their research and have conversations about this stuff.) I'm not super interested in a sandbox with no moderation/regular prompting, but I also can't get behind splitting the game.

That said I'm just one relatively new and unimportant person so I won't throw a tantrum if everyone else wants something different.

[manipulative]

I wanted to add a +1, especially to your comments about splitting the playerbase and having an interest in things outside of the main metaplot. You've covered my feelings more articulately than I can manage.

And you're definitely not unimportant! ♥

[anbaric]

I am 100% interested in the epilogue/society-building themes!

As I mentioned on plurk, too, I'm here for the long haul either way because I have things I would like to wrap up (and I still want to kill Argonaut at least once???), so in terms of where it takes place and all that, I'm pretty flexible. At least Rona and Lunare know what my plans were looking like and what I want to do in the setting in the future, so wherever is best for being disruptive ICly (and less disruptive OOCly) is where I'm at lol.

I assume the idea with the epilogue is that PCs will be playing around with things similar to the Hali vote that would dramatically affect the setting for the next year or so, but no one wants to ruin it for the people who just want to enjoy the setting as-is. For that reason, I can totally see the logic in having separate comms, but I also liked the idea someone else mentioned about having certain areas potentially be affected ICly that would let some people opt out OOCly. I can also see how that would run into the same problem of making the setting unworkable for some people, but that's obviously something that would have to be clearly defined if everyone decided to go with that.

As far as playing out the story arcs I would be interested in in playing with the least amount of collateral disruption to others; I would be more inclined to separate things, especially if the intention with the epilogue is for there to be major alterations to the status quo within the setting. Naturally, it would make the most sense to roll my player plot stuff into events that are already aiming to do that instead of annoying people who just want to quietly have a good time in a sandbox.

I am likely to stick around as long as anyone is interested in extracting all fun and drama out of the anti-Pthumerian stuff — and there's still plenty to work with! — but I am also aware of both my own attention span and the type of character I play lol. It'll be better for me to do something that's more intense and limited-run than something slower and indefinite.

I don't think the idea of splitting is cliquey or divisive, personally, because no one would be barred from joining in on either side, but everyone would have more options for the type of play they'd like to do. That being said, I don't have a strong opinion otherwise and mostly want everyone to have an enjoyable time!

[wannasmash]

Very measured approach, I think player plots are one of the best facets of the game!

[abornfighter]

I am down for the epilogue option with the events being optional. I think it's better to have something that as many people can be involved in as possible, so splitting between sandbox and epilogue doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

What could work for facilitating the opt out more thoroughly while still maintaining the same continuity would be having the events be location specific, and the location itself is warped by Pthumerians. Characters who were in that area at the time are the people choosing to participate. Characters who were not are the people who OOCly opted out. The only IC aspect the opt out characters may have to deal with is that they weren't able to access their house and had to crash with a friend, at a hotel, etc.

[bolstafir]

ohhhh i love this idea

[payingfordeliverance]

It would be one thing if you were intending to take over the game proper or run a sequel game. But with the game plot wrapped and check-in AC, from what I can tell your proposed epilogue basically amounts to "the four of us will bother to keep generating prompts for you for another year". Since that's the case splitting the two into separate communities entirely seems unnecessary to the point of being silly, and honestly kind of mean.

It's not as though people participating in the epilogue will be participating in every part of the epilogue. Those of us who do go there will still be sitting some things out and making our own fun. Given that it really looks like the only thing keeping the two separate would accomplish is that the sandbox people won't be allowed to sit at the epilogue people's lunch table.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for the feedback. We've added an update to the post above covering the direction we'll be moving in here. To sum it up: we'll be going forward with providing some optional ongoing content set in a location separate from Trench, accessible to anyone in the sandbox who wants to use it.

Considerations about splitting the player base were a priority for us as well when discussing what this might look like. The community of Deer Country is the heart of what we appreciate about the game, and we're glad the consensus that emerged out of this interest check was to keep things unified.

[survivalthroughhate]

I'm all for an epilogue that allows people to more gradually have their character arcs, plots, and plans come to an end. Three months really isn't all that long of a time to do any of that. Personally, my favorite part of the game has always been participating in events, how that shapes the CR Maul has developed with people, and how both of those facilitate his growth as a character. An epilogue game which continues on with events and the overarching plot which has only just started to really unfold is something I would willingly participate in.

I'm hesitant of a sandbox-only option as I feel those tend to lose structure fast. I know others have expressed a lot of interest in them but I haven't seen a lot of specific planning for what is going to be done should the game be a sandbox. Granted, this has all been very sudden and I'm sure plans can and will be made eventually but usually those ideas are very small in concept and aren't usually the kind that stretch out over the whole game. I've been in games-turned-sandboxes before and if there's no hard-and-fast metaplot going on or events for people to use as a springboard, it quickly devolves into a few party logs, maybe one or two people putting out personal conflict plots, and then fizzles out completely. A lot of people like to plot stuff but usually that's a lot easier if there's a structure in place regarding what's going on that month.

As far what should be done regarding one, the other, or both, I'm all for epilogue being opt-in while the slower pace of the sandbox continues on, marrying the two ideas together and having it all take place in the same space. I don't want there to be two continuities for me to keep track of or for one faction to seem exclusionary to the other. If both can continue on, well and good, but my primary focus would be on the epilogue since it contains the things which have made me interested in the Deer games since the very start.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for the feedback! We've added an update to the post above covering the plan moving forward, which will be an optional series of events in a separate location from Trench contained within the sandbox. We're looking forward to being able to offer opportunities for those interested to jump in!

[poorlittlesange]

hi 👋 I'm interested predominately in opportunities to wrap up my character's CR in-game in a satisfying way, but wouldn't say no to further in-game events and society building opportunities, in theory. but please also consider me another vote strongly against separating any epilogue activities into a separate set of game communities. it seems needlessly clique-ish and I don't understand the rationale behind it.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for your feedback! We've added an update to the post above covering the results of the interest check. To sum it up: we will be going with providing optional game events within the sandbox, which we agree is the most inclusive option.

[subject_013]

Not in the game at the moment (I plan to either re-app Weaker in May or bring him back in August), but I am all for a post-game epilogue/society-building game. I still have some plans for this madman, namely, among other things, seeking a means of harnessing Corruption and using it as a power-up, and finding a way of allowing Sleepers to have children of their own (himself suspects Mother Mercy has put the kibosh on this). I suggested on Plurk that we have enough pre-existing lore to keep the game going for a good long time, and we could easily revive Deerington TDM/event prompts for those who app'ed later in the game as I did, via a visit to Sleepytown. We could keep the game going as a low-key structured musebox with a check-in AC: we certainly have enough material to work with!

+1

[unphase]

[justoscar]

Given how it seems like the idea of the epilogue option would be to allow a longer form structure for people to finish out their player plots and character arcs, I don't see much of a functional reason in separating the 'structured' part from the 'sandbox' part of the game either. So many of the plots in game are opt-in as it is, both within the meta plot and the smaller player plots. There's ultimately no functional reason to change this unless you all have something bigger in mind.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for the comment! We know you've already seen the update, so we'll just say we're also excited about keeping everything in the same convenient box.

[meliorated]

I'm in the wrong journal for this, and I don't have any big thoughts except that I'm super interested in still RPing in Deer's respective setting.

+1

[opheliac]

i'm also on the same boat of this. i'm still interested in RPing Deer settings but don't have any big thoughts either. reason being is because the character i'm playing cares very little about the pthumerians and half of the plot.

my character will only care about that if a certain canonmate (her dad/boss) is present and he needs her to do something about them for him. so without him, it hasn't been my character's focus. therefore wasn't too much of mine as a player, either. sure, i opt-in events here and there, but stopping the pthumerians or digging in why they are making the characters go through these things, interacting with them, the lore of them and of trench as a whole, and all that stuff -- she doesn't care. same with the whole voting with hali, i didn't comment because as long as she has her friends/family/found family by her side, she doesn't care if they are pthumerian-free. (it also doesn't help that my character loves destruction and chaos!! lol)

my character's main focus had always been the "second chance"/"starting over" portion of deerington/deer country. meaning gaining friends, family, love, personal growth, and killing monsters/beasts or whatever. and while my character talks about how she loves the fast lane, she is actually a slow-burner character. therefore, a lot of things i had set up for her will take a bit to accomplish. and 3 months to try and wrap everything up ain't it. especially when i also haven't been in this game that long either.

i know i'm providing a lot of nothing here, haha. i guess im just speaking as a player who is playing a character who IC doesn't give a crap about most of the heavy-heavy plot stuff and i would just like to have a space where i can continue wrapping stuff up with her in a nice neat little bow in a nice timely manner idk.

[frogfear]

I'm definitely interested in the epilogue!

Given how well the game has functioned historically with those who did not want to engage with certain events simply having the option to not do so, I would say it makes the most sense for the epilogue to carry on this way as well.

[explosion]

+1

Not everyone's going to want to engage with everything, and as someone who has engaged with various events while ignoring others, I'd rather have it be flexible enough that there's structure to play within but no obligation to touch everything that comes up as an opportunity. You can still have your sandboxy elements within structure, I think!

[fromshadows]

I'd definitely be interested in the structured epilogue option, and I think that having it in the same space as the sandbox would be the best idea so that the playerbase isn't split! Further up the page abornfighter mentioned an idea about having epilogue events take place in a sort of Pthumerian-separated space in the city, so that purely sandbox characters can opt out but have the option of staying in the same group as the structured epilogue people, and I think that's a great idea!

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for checking in and giving feedback! We've added an update to the post above covering the plan moving forward, and to sum it up, we will be going with optional monthly prompts posted in the sandbox community. These prompts will also be restricted to a separate location, although it will be continually accessible from elsewhere in the setting - player characters will be able to move freely from one location to the other at any time.

[necrosaint]

What Prox said is similar to my feelings on a lot of things but also points out something important: the use of "replacement mod team," which seems accurate! And a big concern of mine aside from a general preference to be able to let everyone who wants to keep playing in Trench and with its cyclical prompts long after next year to do so (meaning a world-ending epilogue wouldn't work for everyone, and that is what it seems to me the epilogue is going in the direction of--certainly do correct me if I'm wrong). sandboxes *can* work very well if people are still enthusiastic, and everyone here is. But this is a tangent, I'm sorry, so:

The current mods do not want to hand the game over to another mod team, so I'm uncomfortable with the idea that the Deer Country communities would be run by a new team after the current mods have established that they don't want that to happen and Simcha, at least, has stated wishes to keep playing her own character in the sandbox.

So that's why I'm not enthusiastic about what seems to amount to giving a new mod group control over the space and having the epilogue plot run in the sandbox, even though I am with you all in being against splitting the player base up or allowing for restrictions in who can play what. Having new mods essentially take over Deer Country, which is what would happen were the sandbox and epilogue to coexist, isn't something I want to see happen when it is against the wishes of the current mods.

Having an epilogue storyline run by the four proposed epilogue mods (who I believe are all players very skilled at running intricate plots and will do well at it, this isn't meant to be a knock on any individual at all, nor do I want this note interpreted in a way that suggests anything against them! that is not my intent and I do not think they are intentionally trying to take over anything!) in a player plot format that does not essentially create a second mod transfer is thus more in line with what I think is appropriate. If the epilogue is to run in the sandbox space, there shouldn't be mods in charge or applications if the current Deer mods' intent is a sandbox open to anyone who clicks join (check-in to see who is available and following along seems harmless/potentially useful, so I don't take any issue with continuing a check-in AC, and there's absolutely no reason that any player couldn't post events).

Tl;dr If the current mods don't want the game to have new mods, the epilogue should be run as a player plot that won't completely set Trench uninhabitable after its conclusion. If that makes the epilogue storyline difficult to run, that absolutely sucks and I'm super sympathetic to it but creating a mod handover after Simcha was clear about there not being a mod handover is something I'm not going to be down with. Epilogue as player plot that everyone is comfortable with in the sandbox space = cool. Epilogue in separate comms = cool I guess but I'm not sure how it would work without splitting the players, if it can be done though do it if it's what people want! But giving the current game over to new mods to run an epilogue = not cool. Anybody can run plots and events on a planned calendar in a sandbox. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't.

Apologies for any disjointedness, it is totally midnight but I was concerned about forgetting to post this & felt it was important to bring up.

[payingfordeliverance]

I'm feeling some of this too. The players involved are historically very skilled at giving other players fun things to do within the game's setting, so that's not a concern. However, "mod teams" that rise from the ashes only upon the threat of a game's death do not thrive, for one thing. For another, the fact that this has spiraled out into such a big hairy deal at all strikes me as a symptom of this entire idea being a result of people acting on impulse without putting real planning into it.

Here is what is happening as far as I can tell, stripped down to the bare basics:

We all play together in a horror game. The game has metaplot, which some players like to engage with. Other players are more interested in character relationships and getting new magic powers, so they do not bother with the metaplot. We all coexist happily and use the same communities because nobody is stepping on anybody else's toes in any of this.

The current mod team says: Hey! Rather than try to help the game survive another mod handover, we have decided to wrap the current metaplot in the next few months. After that we will leave the setting open for people to use as they like! This way, no one has to worry about graceful transitions or trying to continue a specific story we started.

Great! A bummer, but it's not like they're shutting everything down and taking our shiny toy away entirely. They're just bringing it to a point where they no longer need to be involved.

But, there are many players who do not do well in unstructured settings, and there is concern that a sandbox will fizzle out for that reason. This puts a hard deadline of three months on the game for those players, who do not feel like they can elegantly wrap their characters' stories in only three months.

Legit!

So a handful of players come forward to say, hey, we are willing to volunteer to generate some of that structure. We want players who need that framework to still be able to enjoy themselves within the setting.

Lovely! I personally don't need that and don't engage with the metaplot, but a lot of my CR do, and I am happy to follow them to the place they are most comfortable in and continue happily playing to my interests and ignoring the rest. If the "epilogue" helps my friends to stay involved it will still benefit me, even if I'm not interacting with its content that closely!

How this has exploded into talk of whether the epilogue would happen as a sort of AU to the sandbox and whether quarantining it off into its own exclusive community would "serve the needs" of both sides of the playerbase is beyond me. People have always been able to ignore the plot or not as they chose and having it going on in the middle of everyone's cursed food shenanigans has never been an issue before, so why should it become one now? Is this just a matter of players volunteering to oversee structure in the sandbox, at its core? Or have I missed something in all this talk of check-in AC and what's being proposed is actually a murdergame-esque short run game-game where we all have to show up to rebuild society every Saturday afternoon? Where are people getting the idea that this epilogue is something that would result in characters getting kicked out of Trench or a hard close of the setting once the year is up? Is it just that everyone is upset about the game closing and jumping to conclusions all around?

I think before things go any further all this basic stuff needs to be settled on for certain, and clarified in big bold letters where everyone can see it. We need to know whether the new "mods" intend to be mods proper or just a helpful think tank of prompt generators helping their fellow players out, and whether all this talk of splitting communities is because there is intent to completely change the vibe we already have.

[cryptograms]

I'm extremely interested in an epilogue game, particularly one with structured events and info pages!

As for whether the epilogue continues in Deer Country's communities or in new communities: First, I'm going to assume that Deer Country's ending is going to be a 'fade to black' where the setting persists along with all of the characters in it, rather than ending with everyone going home and the setting destroyed or otherwise inaccessible (since I think in the case of the latter a new community is the only option).

That said, my initial impulse is to say that the epilogue should continue in the main communities as-is. It'll be the easiest way to ensure that all existing players will know exactly where to find the new content, and provide for the smoothest transition from one to the other.

However, I am concerned about what this might mean for sandbox players, especially if the epilogue serves as more of an alternative than a continuation. I wouldn't be surprised if the epilogue ends up with more players just by virtue of having new content for them to engage with. Depending on how uneven the divide is, I'd be concerned that sandbox-only players might feel (probably not unfairly) that they're being drowned out in ignored in their own sandbox by a second game they have no desire to engage with.

tl;dr: I think that:
- keeping the old communities works best for player, setting, and character cohesion, and for an epilogue that is a continuation of the canon endgame, while

- making new communities is the best way to ensure that no one feels like they have to engage with a game structure they're not interested in, and for an epilogue that serves as an alternative to the end game.

[necrosaint]

+1 to the tl;dr, I think this is a very good summation of how determining where IC content will be placed should be done.

[overlies]

i am very interested in an epilogue of sorts!

i just woke up so this may be a little disjointed, but most of what has been said is completely understandable and there are many points to agree with! for one, i understand keeping everything in the same communities to avoid separation of the player base, but at the same time can’t help but to feel against staying in the same comms specifically because our current modteam has already stated they do not want to hand over the game to another team (and that is what this feels like). they wish to end it and keep the setting open for those who want to play in the unstructured sandbox for a bit.

it’s a bit of a dilemma to fix! on one hand we’ve got the group who wants to keep everything here, in one place, and considers a new community to be cliquey, and we’ve got the other group who thinks a new community would be best to leave those who wouldn’t like to continue to their own devices. after a thorough discussion, perhaps a vote is in order?

i also have a proposal: what if we continue to use the old communities to post ic happenings, but a separate community that will include new event prompts + info that can be optional to follow (nothing in character will be posted there, to clarify, it will just be a hub for players who wish for structure to follow while still posting in the sandbox. kind of like a ooc comm but for epilogue content)? that way we’d be able to satisfy both sides, if that makes sense— we wouldn’t be splitting the player base and people can follow the new stuff if they wish to or not.

or, the secret third option, it is made as a separate spin-off game with apps and such so it’s open to new players. perhaps an invite game, with the way it was mentioned in the op? but that’s up to the new team on how they wish to structure things. considering the epilogue is to run for another year at most, i’m unsure as to whether it’s…… I guess “worth it” to make an entirely new game with communities and apps just for the extra time we need to wrap up current character arcs. or maybe I’m wrong! maybe a new game with a slightly tweaked setting can run for quite a bit. it’s a tough cookie 🍪

[wannasmash]

Neither my father nor my mother but a secret third thing! Enticing us and new players to basically a Deer Chapter 3 (I'd like previous mods' permission for that) or its spiritual successor in new communities. Indefinite run, or at least a run over a year, to allow time for new blood to settle in, make close CR, and take ownership of... whatever shenanigans they get up to lol.

A shiny new game could work, but only later when it's planned, built, and advertised to attract new players to what it says on the tin. That takes time and a lot more commitment. It doesn't solve our current dilemma, but it is definitely an option for players who want all the usual features of a game environment.

tl;dr at bottom, lmao i'm so sorry

[wannasmash]

With my 2 answers I'm hoping:
- This summer's endgame doesn't radically alter current environment or characters,
- Epilogue is plotwise a continuation of endgame and is designed to facilitate Deer Country's theme and engagement with core mechanics already in place,
- Epilogue will fade to a sandbox when it's done,
- PC impact on the world with mod-controlled outcomes isn't going to be radically different in time commitment, influence, and frequency to Riteior/Hali stuff.
If these assumptions are wrong, please tell me because it may change my vote.

Epilogue, or a combination very similar to how the game is currently.

I like the same prompt opt-in system Deer Country has been doing. So many players aren't ready to end the game, so why not keep doing what everyone came here for in the first place? One of the positives of the first mod changeover was how surprisingly seamless it was.

Everyone grew Deer Country's culture around events where we mostly don't have to know metaplot. A large shift to metaplot focus will lose players. I say this as a person who generally prefers overarching metaplot: Even if it's opt-in, the non-metaplot event prompts should not be afterthoughts.

Echoing the sentiments of a lot of players, I'm flexible. Where my CR goes is the actual dealbreaker, which leads me to...

Same space.

Whichever keeps characters together, has events, and is not only inclusive but encouraging to new or old players/characters that haven't (yet) sunk their teeth into metaplot or society-building for whatever IC or OOC reason.

I don't want to split the playerbase since we're already losing people as we speak. I think an important part of keeping a CR-focused game active and engaging is having enough people in it with a variety of characters to bounce off.

It would suck to see CR separated if players want different things, or players languishing in an option they don't like in the name of keeping their CR. Deer Country was conceived as a CR-building game with events designed to bring characters together. It attracted players who like that meat. I like that meat!

tl;dr my answer to both questions is, I would like to have the game I apped into and to not worry about losing swathes of CR so suddenly.

PS: I know we're all anxious and/or excited, but please rest and take the time you need for this decision. Thank you to previous mod teams for the care and consideration that went into building Deer Country, and thank you to the current effort to nurture my home game. ;u;

Unrelated: Allow previous Deer Country characters in with no app? I'm not personally invested in this, but it's a thought towards encouraging participation.

[detonating]

Biased, but 👍at the application proposal for previous players. As someone debating on apping back in for no pressure sandbox fun, I would love this. And so would anyone who has to read my Katsuki dissertation LOL

My deciding factor is waiting to see where everyone else lands. If it gets split or changes too drastically from the original mod announcement, I probably will not be coming along for the ride.

[likethelight]

A lot of other players already made brilliant points I agreed with and I already made several points on the plurk, so I'll try to keep it brief. Too many good points!!

The more I think about it, the more I am against an epilogue game in virtually all forms. That's not to say I don't believe in running plots to resolve loose ends and metaplot, I live for metaplot, but I think the way that happens needs to be within the sandbox—which honestly, I don't even like calling it a sandbox at that point because the game has been so active with player plots that it already has more structure than one usually considers with sandboxes. But this energy is absolutely what should be put into keeping the "sandbox" alive, instead of quite likely killing both the sandbox and the epilogue game by forcing people into choosing one or the other. Even if in the same space, unless it's crafted very carefully to allow characters to ICly opt-out in a way that isn't immersion breaking as all Deer plots have always been opt-outable to a degree in that way, I can't see it going in a way that doesn't stomp on a lot of toes and slowly kill game interest overall a lot faster than if it were just a sandbox. It's messy.

An edit thought: not calling/making it a sandbox, but an invite-only game where we moderate and run the plots ourselves? I don't know. Just an idea that hit me I'm still mulling over.

But I love the energy, and I want to see it and these plots and ideas in continuing the game on after the current mod team steps aside because I think that the talent and passion in Deer is enough to keep it afloat and give us potentially years worth of interesting things to thread and plot still. Where big metaplot and any larger setting changes, like with the Hali developments, are voted on by the playerbase so it feels like if we do make changes to the setting and major resolutions, it's done as a whole. Personally I have two major player plots with Sanctuary, Beasts, and pthumerian corruption/salvation that have been slowly gathering steam, asking the mods about and getting lore nuggets on, and getting groundwork laid for over a year now (and have been slow to come around because my life and health exploded and has demanded all my energy...), and I'm actually excited at the idea of sandbox because it would be the perfect time to start rolling those out then.

If anything, for continuations, I would suggest that perhaps 2-3 of us volunteer to continue to write the newsletters with the overall world status with blood effects, weather, patron gifts, reminders of the events that happened in previous years, overall mood of the populace, tiny things that could be expanded on into prompts, etc. after the game ends because that is lightweight and unobtrusive and gives players a place to post their impact summaries for others to see too. I already volunteered to Simcha a ways back to help with world setting and event write-ups similarly, and I'm happy to volunteer for that too.

...I didn't keep it brief, I fail. LOL. tl;dr: I vote democratically run, player-driven, plot-rich sandbox and no epilogue, and those who have passion and energy to continue metaplot stuff should do so within the sandbox with anything that majorly changes a part of the setting being voted on by players (since before they went through a mod approval process). If the plans for an epilogue were truly about ending the setting entirely and putting a nice bow tie on the metaplot, then that's probably something best kept for exploring in PSLs. If anything, that should be about honoring the mods' wishes and not ending their game.

[auferstanden]

+1 to all of this. after reading it, I am very convinced by this summary/plan and feel comfortable with it/feel so will the majority of others so excellent work!

[tealeafs]

i don't have too many extra thoughts on this, but i just wanted to say that my preference is definitely something a little more structured, especially since new events and newly written stuff is likely to get a little more blood and activity flowing than just a plain sandbox! it sounds perfect to me.

the form of it isn't necessarily important to me, so i don't really have an answer as to whether it should be a separate thing or not. i guess i'm just here to say yes, would love some structure and events or other things to play with being written up!

+1

[onekindsoul]

This right here.

[threelayers]

I am interested in both Epilogue and Sandbox shenanigans, which is to say I am good with whatever happens. I will likely re-app both girls (pending Rooster Teeth shenanigans for Neo) into a future 1 year game, and will be happy to participate as a player in those.

Right now, I am about as chill as I've been, so I'll just roll with whatever. But consider me interested and I'll hop in for whatever gets put together. Deerington/Deer Country have been very good to me, and I've loved all of you, so chances to keep the fun going are appreciated.

But, at this time I don't have much in the way of feedback or recommendations. I think you've got an idea. Listen to the other players. Refine it and roll with it. We've got three months to get it set up, so there's no hurry.

+1

[opheliac]

Pretty much me. I'm just down to clown.

[unphase]

Personally, sign me up for the notion of a more structured epilogue game. Also, if any of you need assistance with brainstorming or whatnot, please please please don't hesitate to ask.

DC is easily the best experience I've had in RP in literal years and I'd be brokenhearted if there wasn't a way to carry things over a bit.

And I'm all in favor of a more chill app process, possibly in bringing in extra characters other than just three. I have more free time at work than I know what to do with! 😅

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you for the feedback and offer of help! We've added an update to the post above covering the plan we've come up with based on the feedback here. In short, we'll be going forward with an opt-in limited run series of prompt posts set in a location separate from Trench, so that players have to freedom to use as little or as much of it as they want.

As for applications, we'd like to refer you to the mod update here - it looks like that three person cap is getting lifted!

[whowillmourn]

Question: To be clear, this optional add-on will not affect the meta-plot game state of the world (including the sandbox) (e.g., status of Pthumerians, overall corruption in the world/blood magic, etc)?

[terriblepurpose]

That's correct! There won't be any impact on the Deer Country game state as it stands now or in the post-game sandbox. All content will be optional and there will be no changes to the overall status of Pthumerians, Corruption, blood magic, or any of the other setting features.

[dalmatians]

Socking up here because I haven't been in game for a while and just saw this floating around plurk, but:

I think the four of you would be awesome mods, and if you decided to take some of your ideas and start a new game I'd be there on the spot! (To clarify, I mean a brand new game, not an unofficial sequel/spinoff/copy, as I agree with the concerns already raised about that.)

Sorry if this isn't the sort of feedback you're looking for, you guys were just always so good at creating fun player plots and including everyone that I wanted to encourage you to keep doing it even if the epilogue game didn't pan out.

[terriblepurpose]

Thank you so much! We really appreciate the compliment and that you came all the way back to give it.

We're not planning any brand new game at this time, but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to hear that enthusiasm.